This is a radical take. But it does beg the question of whether or not there is any other realistic alternative given the mentality of most Palestinians. The two-state solution clearly will never happen. So if the world will end up with a state “from the river to the sea,” then it should be Israel instead of a Palestinian state. The former would be democratic and prosperous. The later would look more like Taliban rule in Afghanistan. Also, a total Israeli victory not only would end this long conflict, but would deal a severe blow to anti-Semitism and radical Islam.
Just anything that goes beyond Quora. I am familiar with Danielle Haas’ account at Human Rights Watch for example. She chose to go public with good reason, and that was courageous and lend strength to her account. Also what makes you think I’d rule out any book as being pro-Israel? It’s understandable for Jewish people to be jittery with all that’s going on but no need to lash out. And by the way - I have been “there”. Multiple times. Hence the curiosity.
There has never been such a thing as a Palestinian. It's a dancing clown masquerading as a people, and an excuse for the Arab world to continue to be totalitarian entities and wage eternal war because their ideology is a failure.
Absolutely not. What makes you think that? I understand why you are defensive but no need to be. I am simply very cautious when getting accounts from people on Quora with neither names nor any other facts to verify the account is correct. It can backfire and will be used to torpedo Israel’s cause even more, which is not what anyone needs. Said / quoted person would be great to do an interview with, if they wanted to stay anonymous one could do that but the account would become stronger.
Sorry. Yes, I get defensive, sometimes. Particularly when I'm exhausted. That was uncalled for.
One source is actually a book called Catch the Jew, by Tuvia Tenenbom (https://amzn.to/3TiwRRy). He went around representing himself as a German tourist (he grew up Haredi, but his coloring supports the German thing), and Arabs were far more open with him than they should have been.
When Arabs take land by virtue of war, as a spoil, they tend to keep it. Israel tried trading land for peace, to uproot Jewish settlers, to leave it all to them in Gaza. Guess what? It wasn’t the real goal, was it? It’s never enough, because the real goal is to EXTINGUISH JEWS AND JUDAISM ITSELF FROM THE FAC EOF THE EARTH.
A radical take, but sadly it might be the only way. Ridding Palestinian society of Jew-hatred and Jihadism, in the same way that Nazism was all-but eradicated in Germany, might be a venture too far and fanciful. With then the only hope to move them far enough away that their Jew-hatred will cease to become a physical threat.
I'm using the term 'radical' because I'm sure that's how many outsiders will look at it, particularly the 'ethnic cleansing' bleating assholes. No, it's NOT ethnic cleasing, I'd shout back at them. It has nothing to do with their ethnic make-up, but more the fact that they're bloodthirsty terrorists and their supporters. 'Terrorist cleansing' if you will ... which is certainly acceptable looking at what happened with ISIS in Iraq.
Welcome back, Lisa. I agree with you about explusion, except for maybe a few who were too intimidated to do anything. My suggestion for where they should go, those Western countries who are so in favor of a "two-state delusion," England, France, Canada, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany. All those who have welcomed in thousands upon thousands of Arabs, trying to destroy Western values and working towards turning their countries into a caliphate. This, thanks to their weak-kneed, cowardly "leaders." Certainly, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries don't want them and with good reason. None of them want an Arab Spring. I have many ways they can be expelled, but I'll leave that up to those who are in charge when this war has ended.
I don't think we can wait until this ends and *then* deport them. I think it ends *by* deporting them. As far as where, Spain is an option. Spanish law requires that all refugees from genocide be admitted immediately. And they've officially accused us of genocide. So despite the fact that they're idiots, by their own standards, they must accept them.
Brazil has already said they'll take as many who come. As have a number of African nations.
No. It has to be an Arab country. The realistic option is the ex-Egyptians from Gaza to Egypt, and the ex-Jordanians from Judea and Samaria to Jordan. Although I feel Qatar deserved them more.
For the record, while the Arabs in Judea and Samaria are Jordanians left behind after we liberated it, that's because there was travel within Jordan, and Jordan considered J/S to be part of their country. The same was not true for Egypt and the Gaza Strip.
Lisa is wrong. If this war ends now, it ends in a Hamas victory, with many more October 7ths to come. The war must continue until Israel is victorious.
Of course, I can’t expect Lisa to agree if she wants Israel to be destroyed.
You clearly didn't read what I wrote. The war ends when there are no more Arabs in Gaza. Hamas is irrelevant; a red herring. The war must end, and it must end by the permanent removal of every single Arab.
We have a different ‘take’ on the difference between the two. I see it more as the realization that from God’s point of view there may not be a distinction between good and evil. I cannot see anything being imbedded in any Biblical source as a lesson for teaching hate. But that’s from my perch.
Interesting take on Purim - never viewed hate as being part of it - just the ever present fight against evil, political savvy and being engaged with the world. Shabbat Shalom
The idea of drinking until you can't distinguish between baruch Mordechai and arur Haman is that people often have inhibitions about hating the enemy. Cursing the enemy. On Purim, we drink just a little, just enough to lower those inhibitions, so that we can grasp the truth that there *is* no difference between baruch Mordechai and arur Haman. You can't have the former without the latter.
Couldn’t disagree it just hurts. My Mother o”h, a graduate of Mengele’s Lectures at Auschwitz Uni once told me that the worst thing out of the camps was that she learned to hate.
I would love to share this on Quora. But I hesitate. I have a significant number of followers there. Not a few are apparently Muslim. I will look like an ogre. Better I give them what they come to me for, ever so slightly sugar coated.
Anybody who has an account can open what they call a space and post, in theory, whatever they like which complies with their guidelines. However, posts can be taken down by bots or reported by members, possibly leading to the same result. So far TG, I have escaped the worse sanction of temporary or permanent banning. One important Israeli member is currently banned. Another, active on over 100 spaces and with well over 20 million views, had a life threatening and uncharacteristic accident and can no longer use a computer.
To every problem there is a solution. Depose the Qatari regime. Bomb their oilfields and airport, and Al Jazeera. The next regime gives the US the airbase for free, and petrol at a discount. You have a stranglehold on Europe which is dependent on Nat Gas from Qatar.
It's not realistic. But that's why one has imagination...
An easier solution is to coerce Egypt at the expense of withdrawal of UD Aid. Egypt is a failed country whose basic food needs are dependent on Aid. There are more solutions. Bot all are immediate, but all can be worked towards.
A very antagonist take, cancels all efforts of those (naive?) who believe in peace initiatives. The book I just reviewed, and posted my comments about, includes 27 essays mostly written by the Israeli academics and non-academics who argue that this exact attitude is that prevents the end of the war and will lead to the actual destruction of Israel. In their view, this approach will result in the never ending war and, in their view, this is exactly what Netanyahu is all about.
I am not an Israeli and I cannot say whether living in a perpetual state of war is what the majority of Israelis want, and I do not know whether the comments here are by those who live in Israel.
It only cancels all efforts of those who believe in peace initiatives because they meet Einstein's definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
The authors of those essays are more than naive. They are detached from observable reality.
And I wouldn't call my piece "antagonistic". I'd call it "hopeful".
The Israeli Academia are pseudo-leftist globalists who all live in Ramat Aviv. They are the same ones who said Arafat was joking when the day he signed Oslo he said he would use the Palestinian identity as a way tow age war. They are the same left who said Hamas and the Palestinians only wanted material comfort. They are the same left who are dependent on global opinion, as "Academics", the same left who is wealthy and entitled, the same left who think that Israel can exist without being Jewish, the same left who doesn't know Pesach from Shavuot, and the same left who has been wrong about everything. They are not worthy of citation.
It is the only answer to securing peace ; deport the South syrian arabs from Gaza , Judaea and Samaria . Egypt and Jordan must be forced to take them by the western nations , with financial incentives to keep them contained and to pay for attempted de radicalisation / de-nazification . Then Iran’s neutralisation and Qatar’s and Turkey’s punishment can be followed by the completion of the Abraham and Cyrus Accords .
This also will lead to western countries forcing their leaders to conduct similar exercises at home : deport all those that will not commit allegiance to the host country. A return to democracy, patriotism , and common sense .
To be honest, I'd rather not have them on our border, even on the other side of the river. And the border with the Sinai is enormous. This seems like a bad idea all around.
They need to be sent away. Far away. And deradicalization only works on radical views. In their society, there is nothing radical about wanting to genocide Israel. Denazification is also a non-starter. The Germans had a culture *before* Nazism. They had something to return to. These Arabs don't.
This is a radical take. But it does beg the question of whether or not there is any other realistic alternative given the mentality of most Palestinians. The two-state solution clearly will never happen. So if the world will end up with a state “from the river to the sea,” then it should be Israel instead of a Palestinian state. The former would be democratic and prosperous. The later would look more like Taliban rule in Afghanistan. Also, a total Israeli victory not only would end this long conflict, but would deal a severe blow to anti-Semitism and radical Islam.
Just anything that goes beyond Quora. I am familiar with Danielle Haas’ account at Human Rights Watch for example. She chose to go public with good reason, and that was courageous and lend strength to her account. Also what makes you think I’d rule out any book as being pro-Israel? It’s understandable for Jewish people to be jittery with all that’s going on but no need to lash out. And by the way - I have been “there”. Multiple times. Hence the curiosity.
There has never been such a thing as a Palestinian. It's a dancing clown masquerading as a people, and an excuse for the Arab world to continue to be totalitarian entities and wage eternal war because their ideology is a failure.
I agree. Palestinians are just Arabs. The are not a unique people group. And so me of them only moved to “Palestine” as late as the 1930s.
Wonder if there is a better source for this than the Quora discussion thread? Not that I have a hard time believing it, just wondering.
What would constitute a better source for you? Any book I'd recommend would be ruled out by you as being by people who are pro-Israel.
I guess you'll have to go there yourself and see.
Absolutely not. What makes you think that? I understand why you are defensive but no need to be. I am simply very cautious when getting accounts from people on Quora with neither names nor any other facts to verify the account is correct. It can backfire and will be used to torpedo Israel’s cause even more, which is not what anyone needs. Said / quoted person would be great to do an interview with, if they wanted to stay anonymous one could do that but the account would become stronger.
Sorry. Yes, I get defensive, sometimes. Particularly when I'm exhausted. That was uncalled for.
One source is actually a book called Catch the Jew, by Tuvia Tenenbom (https://amzn.to/3TiwRRy). He went around representing himself as a German tourist (he grew up Haredi, but his coloring supports the German thing), and Arabs were far more open with him than they should have been.
Another one is The War of Return, by Einat Wilf and Adi Schwartz (https://amzn.to/4kViSgu).
When Arabs take land by virtue of war, as a spoil, they tend to keep it. Israel tried trading land for peace, to uproot Jewish settlers, to leave it all to them in Gaza. Guess what? It wasn’t the real goal, was it? It’s never enough, because the real goal is to EXTINGUISH JEWS AND JUDAISM ITSELF FROM THE FAC EOF THE EARTH.
Very few commentators can face this stark, reality head on. You are one of them. Well done.
A radical take, but sadly it might be the only way. Ridding Palestinian society of Jew-hatred and Jihadism, in the same way that Nazism was all-but eradicated in Germany, might be a venture too far and fanciful. With then the only hope to move them far enough away that their Jew-hatred will cease to become a physical threat.
In Israel this take is not radical at all (by definition, since over 50 percent of Jews support it.)
https://archive.is/nNzq4#selection-583.0-605.302
I like the results of the poll. I'm a little skeptical, with it coming from Israel's own Der Sturmer, Haaretz.
I'm using the term 'radical' because I'm sure that's how many outsiders will look at it, particularly the 'ethnic cleansing' bleating assholes. No, it's NOT ethnic cleasing, I'd shout back at them. It has nothing to do with their ethnic make-up, but more the fact that they're bloodthirsty terrorists and their supporters. 'Terrorist cleansing' if you will ... which is certainly acceptable looking at what happened with ISIS in Iraq.
Welcome back, Lisa. I agree with you about explusion, except for maybe a few who were too intimidated to do anything. My suggestion for where they should go, those Western countries who are so in favor of a "two-state delusion," England, France, Canada, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany. All those who have welcomed in thousands upon thousands of Arabs, trying to destroy Western values and working towards turning their countries into a caliphate. This, thanks to their weak-kneed, cowardly "leaders." Certainly, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries don't want them and with good reason. None of them want an Arab Spring. I have many ways they can be expelled, but I'll leave that up to those who are in charge when this war has ended.
I don't think we can wait until this ends and *then* deport them. I think it ends *by* deporting them. As far as where, Spain is an option. Spanish law requires that all refugees from genocide be admitted immediately. And they've officially accused us of genocide. So despite the fact that they're idiots, by their own standards, they must accept them.
Brazil has already said they'll take as many who come. As have a number of African nations.
Wow, I haven't heard anything about those countries accepting them. I do prefer the Western countries so they can put the nail on their coffins.
Oh, Spain hasn't agreed. They've simply painted themselves into a corner. I've no doubt that they'll renege on their obligations.
No. It has to be an Arab country. The realistic option is the ex-Egyptians from Gaza to Egypt, and the ex-Jordanians from Judea and Samaria to Jordan. Although I feel Qatar deserved them more.
Why does it have to be an Arab country?
because they are Arabs. let them disappear amongst their own.
For the record, while the Arabs in Judea and Samaria are Jordanians left behind after we liberated it, that's because there was travel within Jordan, and Jordan considered J/S to be part of their country. The same was not true for Egypt and the Gaza Strip.
Why?
Lisa is wrong. If this war ends now, it ends in a Hamas victory, with many more October 7ths to come. The war must continue until Israel is victorious.
Of course, I can’t expect Lisa to agree if she wants Israel to be destroyed.
You clearly didn't read what I wrote. The war ends when there are no more Arabs in Gaza. Hamas is irrelevant; a red herring. The war must end, and it must end by the permanent removal of every single Arab.
Next time, read more than the damn headline.
I stand corrected.
It's shocking that any Israeli would call for an end to the war before any of the aims are realized. This is essentially a call for surrender.
None of those aims are relevant if the Arabs are removed from Gaza. If you think I'm talking about surrender, you didn't bother reading the article.
I was not saying you were calling for surrender. I was referring to the individuals you mentioned in the beginning of your article who hung the sign.
ובערת הרע מקרבך
As much as it pains the נקודת הרחמים from within - do we have another choice ?
I don't think רחמים applies here any more than it did when King Saul used it.
You’re probably correct but it’s hard to quell the emotion
The Arabs are helping me quell it.
We have a different ‘take’ on the difference between the two. I see it more as the realization that from God’s point of view there may not be a distinction between good and evil. I cannot see anything being imbedded in any Biblical source as a lesson for teaching hate. But that’s from my perch.
Interesting take on Purim - never viewed hate as being part of it - just the ever present fight against evil, political savvy and being engaged with the world. Shabbat Shalom
The idea of drinking until you can't distinguish between baruch Mordechai and arur Haman is that people often have inhibitions about hating the enemy. Cursing the enemy. On Purim, we drink just a little, just enough to lower those inhibitions, so that we can grasp the truth that there *is* no difference between baruch Mordechai and arur Haman. You can't have the former without the latter.
Couldn’t disagree it just hurts. My Mother o”h, a graduate of Mengele’s Lectures at Auschwitz Uni once told me that the worst thing out of the camps was that she learned to hate.
One of the takeaways I have from Purim is that if we can't hate our enemies, we can't truly love ourselves.
I would love to share this on Quora. But I hesitate. I have a significant number of followers there. Not a few are apparently Muslim. I will look like an ogre. Better I give them what they come to me for, ever so slightly sugar coated.
I'm happy to. Where do you recommend I do so? Quora doesn't just let you post articles, does it? You have to be answering a question.
Anybody who has an account can open what they call a space and post, in theory, whatever they like which complies with their guidelines. However, posts can be taken down by bots or reported by members, possibly leading to the same result. So far TG, I have escaped the worse sanction of temporary or permanent banning. One important Israeli member is currently banned. Another, active on over 100 spaces and with well over 20 million views, had a life threatening and uncharacteristic accident and can no longer use a computer.
you are entirely correct. except for one thing. we know where they should be expelled to: Qatar. By force.
It's very far away, and the US will defend them, because they require the airbase in Qatar as a watchtower from which to watch China.
To every problem there is a solution. Depose the Qatari regime. Bomb their oilfields and airport, and Al Jazeera. The next regime gives the US the airbase for free, and petrol at a discount. You have a stranglehold on Europe which is dependent on Nat Gas from Qatar.
It's not realistic. But that's why one has imagination...
An easier solution is to coerce Egypt at the expense of withdrawal of UD Aid. Egypt is a failed country whose basic food needs are dependent on Aid. There are more solutions. Bot all are immediate, but all can be worked towards.
This is one of the reasons the idea doesn't get traction. Your proposals are not well thought out. They're emotional and short sighted.
Don't be such a yente. It's not becoming.
A very antagonist take, cancels all efforts of those (naive?) who believe in peace initiatives. The book I just reviewed, and posted my comments about, includes 27 essays mostly written by the Israeli academics and non-academics who argue that this exact attitude is that prevents the end of the war and will lead to the actual destruction of Israel. In their view, this approach will result in the never ending war and, in their view, this is exactly what Netanyahu is all about.
I am not an Israeli and I cannot say whether living in a perpetual state of war is what the majority of Israelis want, and I do not know whether the comments here are by those who live in Israel.
It only cancels all efforts of those who believe in peace initiatives because they meet Einstein's definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
The authors of those essays are more than naive. They are detached from observable reality.
And I wouldn't call my piece "antagonistic". I'd call it "hopeful".
The Israeli Academia are pseudo-leftist globalists who all live in Ramat Aviv. They are the same ones who said Arafat was joking when the day he signed Oslo he said he would use the Palestinian identity as a way tow age war. They are the same left who said Hamas and the Palestinians only wanted material comfort. They are the same left who are dependent on global opinion, as "Academics", the same left who is wealthy and entitled, the same left who think that Israel can exist without being Jewish, the same left who doesn't know Pesach from Shavuot, and the same left who has been wrong about everything. They are not worthy of citation.
It is the only answer to securing peace ; deport the South syrian arabs from Gaza , Judaea and Samaria . Egypt and Jordan must be forced to take them by the western nations , with financial incentives to keep them contained and to pay for attempted de radicalisation / de-nazification . Then Iran’s neutralisation and Qatar’s and Turkey’s punishment can be followed by the completion of the Abraham and Cyrus Accords .
This also will lead to western countries forcing their leaders to conduct similar exercises at home : deport all those that will not commit allegiance to the host country. A return to democracy, patriotism , and common sense .
To be honest, I'd rather not have them on our border, even on the other side of the river. And the border with the Sinai is enormous. This seems like a bad idea all around.
They need to be sent away. Far away. And deradicalization only works on radical views. In their society, there is nothing radical about wanting to genocide Israel. Denazification is also a non-starter. The Germans had a culture *before* Nazism. They had something to return to. These Arabs don't.