Exactly, why does Israel risk the lives of its youth in order to appease a world which falsely accuses it of "genocide" anyway, no matter how much the IDF goes out of its way to protect a population which fully supports hamas. Thanks for coining a new term. I like the term palinazis and will be using it.
https://esseragaroth.substack.com/p/will-israel-continue-to-fight-americas Maybe I'll start using the term meat grinder instead of canon fodder. People get so upset that I am insulting IDF soldiers. But I am not. I am coming for the government, the IDF leadership, and the Israeli educational system... oh yeah, and mamlakhti (State = Torah, to varying degrees) rabbis. But then when I give the soldiers a break by calling them pawns, I am insulting them. Which is it? Are they brainwashed or complicit? The same arguments were made about them in 2005. Were the soldiers complicit in expelling Jews from their homes, because they choice to follow orders in contravention to Torah? Or were their rabbis at fault for instructing them that it was Torah to follow the State line? There are other important things you bring up/remind us here. But I think this one I'm taking away, and spreading it around. We're in really bad shape here, more than most are willing to admit.
It's something I struggle with often. Not that I'm so important to the army. I think the reasons for refusal matter. I'd love to see the Hesder yeshivos issue an ultimatum that unless some changes are made they will not send their students to the army. Unfortunately the chances of that happening are low.
Patently illegal orders פקודות אי-חוקיות בעליל are ones that are immoral so immoral that everyone can see it. You can't have an army, though, if everyone in it is deciding on a case by case basis whether they consider it ethical. That's anarchy.
Go into the army. Refuse to go into tunnels. Refuse to go into places that could be destroyed from the air and are only being spared in order to spare PalNazis.
We know enough, analysing the facts and connecting dots over a period of time in the cold hard light of day, just as you have in this post, to come to the conclusion that the leadership is perfidious, the strategic direction of the army essentially immoral.
Joining such an army, sacrificing oneself in a meat grinder so that the USA can claim sovereignty over Gaza, is plain crazy.
In the former Soviet Union (and many other totalitarian states) every tiny act of rebellion against the evil regime was viewed as a victory, and everyone sought new ways to defy the dictates of a government they could see was irrationally attempting to micromanage the lives of its citizens and force them to accept and strive toward patently absurd goals. Were those "microagressions" against the almighty sovereign soviet ethical?
Absolutely.
Because every jab at evil, however weak, is good.
So, too, here, where the sovereign has proved itself at every turn to be an enemy of Torah, Jews and G-d.
Ethical not to serve?
You're darn right.
And if anyone tells you that means we risk not having an army, then let them know, politely, that they clearlt have no G-d.
We need to stop caring about the enemy. Gaza is simple. Seal it. Hermetically. If they want food, they can trade hostages, or information leading to hostages, for it. A sandwich for a hostage and a cup of water for information leading to a hostage.
I'm not being flip. There has never in the history of mankind been such a twisted morality of helping to feed and care for people who are trying to murder you. It's a pathology, and there'll be books written on it some day.
Every single place we take in Gaza, we keep. Period. There are soldiers who have conquered the same place four times just during this war. That's madness. You don't conquer a place, say, "See, I conquered it. Now I'm going. Don't make me come back." Every single place we control becomes an integral part of the State of Israel, immediately.
I don't know if you're aware, but Israeli law dating from 1949 says that the Defense Minister, without even getting the approval of anyone else, has only to declare land under our control to be part of Israel, and legally, it's done.
These are easy calls for armchair generals who don’t have to send the youth of the nation to war and possibly die or bear the responsibility for the lives of the hostages while almost half the nation claims the government is too war like and overly aggressive and the hostage forum and Kaplan group block the streets and oppose virtually any military actions. I want Hamas destroyed, I want IDF to finish this job as well but a little humility is in order from those of us not sitting in the hot seat.
Go ahead and pretend that the option is between doing something useful and sending ground troops in to be chewed up. It's not true, but suit yourself.
The lives of the hostages, even all of them combined, do not outweigh the harm being done to Israel.
And fuck Hamas being destroyed. Seriously. Anyone who talks about destroying Hamas is simply trying to whitewash the real villains. It's like claiming that the enemy in WWII was the Reichstag. It's morally bereft. It's sickening. The enemy is the PalNazis. In truth, it goes beyond them, but the immediate enemy is the PalNazis. Not the fucking Hamas.
And what about those of us who wore the uniform and left our families for months and lost friends? Do you expect our motivation to continue serving this corrupt and treasonous state will go on forever?
Somewhere in my viewing history I saw in 1980 or heard a quip that Lebanese army tanks were in a 1980 Jerusalem Independence Day parade and I've been unable to verify that but the odd things you hear that come true or are completely nefarious are plentiful
Brigitte Gabriel &Gad Saad are out telling the truth but not hearing any voices from within Lebanon being reasonable. The second largest embassy in the world is there with 15,000 employees and sits on 40 acres with five subterranean floors and they couldn't catch the two Hezbollah guys for 30 years with millions in reward money, who's going to be at that ceremony and when? As much as you like to point to reality and I'm aware of Egypt it's all happening and what a time to sponge the atmosphere of wow
I said it with certainty and I can't verify it now so I retract until proven correct but everything I read today I reviewed and there's zero but I know but I can't prove what I saw and here we are standing up to Lebanon and being prepared to smote Gaza should be elemental as we both lament.
Exactly, why does Israel risk the lives of its youth in order to appease a world which falsely accuses it of "genocide" anyway, no matter how much the IDF goes out of its way to protect a population which fully supports hamas. Thanks for coining a new term. I like the term palinazis and will be using it.
I wish I could take credit for it.
https://esseragaroth.substack.com/p/will-israel-continue-to-fight-americas Maybe I'll start using the term meat grinder instead of canon fodder. People get so upset that I am insulting IDF soldiers. But I am not. I am coming for the government, the IDF leadership, and the Israeli educational system... oh yeah, and mamlakhti (State = Torah, to varying degrees) rabbis. But then when I give the soldiers a break by calling them pawns, I am insulting them. Which is it? Are they brainwashed or complicit? The same arguments were made about them in 2005. Were the soldiers complicit in expelling Jews from their homes, because they choice to follow orders in contravention to Torah? Or were their rabbis at fault for instructing them that it was Torah to follow the State line? There are other important things you bring up/remind us here. But I think this one I'm taking away, and spreading it around. We're in really bad shape here, more than most are willing to admit.
A ethical question: is it right to refuse to serve in the army, if the leadership is so perfidious?
It's something I struggle with often. Not that I'm so important to the army. I think the reasons for refusal matter. I'd love to see the Hesder yeshivos issue an ultimatum that unless some changes are made they will not send their students to the army. Unfortunately the chances of that happening are low.
No. But it's right to refuse patently illegal orders.
I don't understand the logic. Why would it be wrong to say, I don't want to join the army, because I don't want to enter a pointless meat grinder?
And why does what is legal or not, determine what is ethical or not?
Patently illegal orders פקודות אי-חוקיות בעליל are ones that are immoral so immoral that everyone can see it. You can't have an army, though, if everyone in it is deciding on a case by case basis whether they consider it ethical. That's anarchy.
Go into the army. Refuse to go into tunnels. Refuse to go into places that could be destroyed from the air and are only being spared in order to spare PalNazis.
How is this difficult?
"Everyone can see it" is ultimately subjective, so we haven't achieved anything.
And how can you refuse those orders? Just go to prison?
What kind of army works when underlings have a choice whether to accept an order or not? What level of moral or camaraderie will it have?
How is an infantryman even supposed to know if a specific place could or could not be destroyed from the air? And make a decision under time pressure?
For that matter, how can you or I, when we don't have the available intelligence?
We know enough, analysing the facts and connecting dots over a period of time in the cold hard light of day, just as you have in this post, to come to the conclusion that the leadership is perfidious, the strategic direction of the army essentially immoral.
Joining such an army, sacrificing oneself in a meat grinder so that the USA can claim sovereignty over Gaza, is plain crazy.
You can’t beat ‘em, do not join them.
In the former Soviet Union (and many other totalitarian states) every tiny act of rebellion against the evil regime was viewed as a victory, and everyone sought new ways to defy the dictates of a government they could see was irrationally attempting to micromanage the lives of its citizens and force them to accept and strive toward patently absurd goals. Were those "microagressions" against the almighty sovereign soviet ethical?
Absolutely.
Because every jab at evil, however weak, is good.
So, too, here, where the sovereign has proved itself at every turn to be an enemy of Torah, Jews and G-d.
Ethical not to serve?
You're darn right.
And if anyone tells you that means we risk not having an army, then let them know, politely, that they clearlt have no G-d.
Clearly*
So Q? What would you do right now, if you were Bibi’s shoes. How would you resolve the Status Quo 🤔
That's a reasonable question.
https://lisaliel.substack.com/p/from-the-river-to-the-sea
https://lisaliel.substack.com/p/let-their-people-go
https://lisaliel.substack.com/p/how-to-restore-peace-and-security
We need to stop caring about the enemy. Gaza is simple. Seal it. Hermetically. If they want food, they can trade hostages, or information leading to hostages, for it. A sandwich for a hostage and a cup of water for information leading to a hostage.
I'm not being flip. There has never in the history of mankind been such a twisted morality of helping to feed and care for people who are trying to murder you. It's a pathology, and there'll be books written on it some day.
Every single place we take in Gaza, we keep. Period. There are soldiers who have conquered the same place four times just during this war. That's madness. You don't conquer a place, say, "See, I conquered it. Now I'm going. Don't make me come back." Every single place we control becomes an integral part of the State of Israel, immediately.
I don't know if you're aware, but Israeli law dating from 1949 says that the Defense Minister, without even getting the approval of anyone else, has only to declare land under our control to be part of Israel, and legally, it's done.
Thank You. You’re not being “flip” at all👍 I really appreciate your reply there’s a lot of real sense to it.
Thanks Again.
🇦🇺🤝🇮🇱
These are easy calls for armchair generals who don’t have to send the youth of the nation to war and possibly die or bear the responsibility for the lives of the hostages while almost half the nation claims the government is too war like and overly aggressive and the hostage forum and Kaplan group block the streets and oppose virtually any military actions. I want Hamas destroyed, I want IDF to finish this job as well but a little humility is in order from those of us not sitting in the hot seat.
Go ahead and pretend that the option is between doing something useful and sending ground troops in to be chewed up. It's not true, but suit yourself.
The lives of the hostages, even all of them combined, do not outweigh the harm being done to Israel.
And fuck Hamas being destroyed. Seriously. Anyone who talks about destroying Hamas is simply trying to whitewash the real villains. It's like claiming that the enemy in WWII was the Reichstag. It's morally bereft. It's sickening. The enemy is the PalNazis. In truth, it goes beyond them, but the immediate enemy is the PalNazis. Not the fucking Hamas.
Language.
Allo! Allo! Let’s watch our language….!
And what about those of us who wore the uniform and left our families for months and lost friends? Do you expect our motivation to continue serving this corrupt and treasonous state will go on forever?
Bibi is the Second Coming... of Arik Sharon (minus the military victories).
https://www.jewishpress.com/news/middle-east/lebanon/us-supports-idfs-continued-presence-in-south-lebanon-as-long-as-hezbollah-remains/2025/02/14/
I thought I read it there yesterday but didn't see it reading it after rereading it but evidently I did read it and now you can too
Somewhere in my viewing history I saw in 1980 or heard a quip that Lebanese army tanks were in a 1980 Jerusalem Independence Day parade and I've been unable to verify that but the odd things you hear that come true or are completely nefarious are plentiful
Brigitte Gabriel &Gad Saad are out telling the truth but not hearing any voices from within Lebanon being reasonable. The second largest embassy in the world is there with 15,000 employees and sits on 40 acres with five subterranean floors and they couldn't catch the two Hezbollah guys for 30 years with millions in reward money, who's going to be at that ceremony and when? As much as you like to point to reality and I'm aware of Egypt it's all happening and what a time to sponge the atmosphere of wow
https://youtu.be/qAjrB8-R9Kw?si=zBxv5yFogRc540FH
Remarkable interaction between a survivor and a student propagandist
NATO headquarters in Belgium is a monstrosity too.
My understanding is that condoleezza Rice told Sharon get out from Gaza, have you heard a variant?
I said it with certainty and I can't verify it now so I retract until proven correct but everything I read today I reviewed and there's zero but I know but I can't prove what I saw and here we are standing up to Lebanon and being prepared to smote Gaza should be elemental as we both lament.